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Source on this. Appears he’s using NREL data
I'd push back that ethanol is really that good for the bottom line of farmers. It provided a big jolt in 2008, but since then the market has responded and it mainly helped put upward pressure in input prices.
That’s super interesting. So what explains its political imperviousness?
I wonder what the results would be for wind and nuclear.
Additionally, I wonder what the results would look like if each was spread out in roughly optimized positions
This is of course assuming the optimal position for solar is *not* a giant circle taking up most of Nebraska
Much, much, much smaller for nuclear. It’s the least land intensive source of power.
While you have kind of a point, it should be noted that you are comparing electricity generating space with propulsion generating space. We don’t use ethanol to generate electricity, and that solar dot would be far bigger if we had 100% electric propulsion.
If we covered 33% of every residential US roof w/ 360w+ panels. With 25kWh avg batteries. 4200TWh addt’l a year, more than 2x produced today. Even with loan costs over 10 years, average per kWh would be $.12, vs $.17 average residential today.
Turn houses into a power grid.
Amtrak from the West to Chicago showed me just how much f*cking corn is being grown. Unfathomable amounts.
Photosynthesis is just sooo inefficient, the result is a horrific land use footprint.
What I don't understand is why the power bill is so high in California because they "did everything right". Aren't these things supposed to be efficient? Why does the price keep going up?
Now do the price needed to cover a square mile in solar panels vs. a field of corn
How much land it would take to fully replace the output of the Vogtle Nuclear Power Station in Georgia with Solar and battery backup to match its continuous 24 hour output.
Answer: 218,100 acres (341 sq. miles; 18.5 miles x 18.5 miles square)
That's just to fully replace one
We can cover the solar space needed with our rooftops.
One battery on each home would balance the grid nicely.
Remember solar collection is only half the solution. You also need battery storage so you can match supply with demand especially when the sun doesn't shine.
All those corn fields can be turned to other crops if necessary. Once a “solar field” is planted that land is forever useless…well even more useless than putting solar panels on it.
Drop ethanol
Put solar on every government building roof and every parking lot
Leave farm land out of it
Or you could replace that green circle with this red circle of nuclear which runs no matter how much sun is shining
Put solar on your city bugman huts. Leave the mid west alone.
Yeah but we can just stop the ethanol. It’s a huge waste of topsoil And hurts gas mileage.
Yea ethanol is dumb, and as a fuel additive is apparently more polluting anyway. Make gas no ethanol again.
Now do the area that has to be utilized to mine, manufacture, transport, install, maintain and produce the massive battery packs required to make solar even somewhat usable.
Biofuels is only good foe fireplaces. The REAL deal is nuclear and solar/LFP.
I'm not a fan of ethanol, but this is misleading as it is easy to plant crops where corn grows. It is not easy to plant crops where wind or solar grow. It takes major construction projects to do so. Solar belongs on roofs...that's it.
I’m all for putting solar on buildings and parking lots. But trading farm or natural land for solar. That has to be the stupidest take I have seen from the left. Just tell me who is part of the grift so we can cut off their funding.
I disagree with the stupid ethanol policy, but it doesn’t destroy the landscape.
Stop acting like you give a shit about the environment if you won't call out China.
Agreed. The 40 million acres we devote to ethanol, amounting to nearly half of all corn production, is a rather silly and inefficient way to produce energy.
Quote
Dr. Robert Rohde
@RARohde
~45% of US corn production is now used to make ethanol, mostly for mixing into gasoline.
That's ~13% of all US crop land already used for energy production.
Using some of the same land for solar panels would capture 50-100 times more energy per acre.
Does nothing to justify putting panels on the ground instead of on rooftops
please describe the environmental benefits of converting all land currently used for ethanol production in the US to regenerate agriculture and grazing. Consider topsoil, food system, and climate benefits.
I bet ethanol looks even worse when you look at in terms of energy in put vs. energy output.
the subsidy level for corn-ethanol is an enormous $$ transfer for no purpose .. it feeds no one, it wastes water, it hurts climate.
Does this include solar that still has crops or livestock under it. If you are planting for ethanol you can't use for other crops
Why not just cover every big box store roofs and every surface parking lot with panels first? Less transmission losses as well.
if that includes the footprint of corn farms thats kind of disingenuous imo
You're right. Corn should not be used for gasoline. Get rid of the ethanol mandate.
And the opportunity cost of land good for solar is probably way lower than that for ethanol?
Ethanol biofuel is just such an ungodly pointless project it's baffling nobody talks about just how stupid and wasteful the subsidies on it are
There is credible evidence corn ethanol is actually WORSE for the planet (in terms of carbon emissions etc) than just burning good old black gold. There are definitely bio-fuels that make sense if you want to reduce emissions but corn isn't one of them.
Shouldnt we be on waste & cellulosic feedstocks, hemp(rotational crop no extra land, adaptability to agro-ecological conditions 40-43% more than other Agri feedstocks) lignocellulosic abundant circular, yes refinery/engines still needs work + solar should be dual/ multifunctional
If Ethanol was outlawed tomorrow, that corn could/would be available for animal feed and other uses.
The land taken by solar cannot be so easily converted. The corn supports the environment by producing O2 and feeding wildlife. Wind and Solar harm the environment.
Graphic says it allless land for solar, way more climate value. If we devoted even a fraction of ethanol's acres to solar, we'd see real progress. On attend quoi ? 
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Solar installations don't sweat like corn does, right?
That red dot. That's as large as it gets. That's huge amounts of land covered in solar panels.
Completely different physical requirements for land use, storage, and distribution.
Ethanol is so damn stupid, inefficient as a fuel with the added bonus of screwing up your gas tank in a few years
Does it include both solar and their batteries for when the sun isn't shining?
Solar should be doubling up on land we already use (roofs). Corn should be good, not gas. Land should be for nature, recreation, and food.
In theory cultivating for ethanol is just an inefficient way to get solar power 
If you’ve ever done any commercial solar projects you know this graphic is wrong
Doing the math, corn might capture 3% of sunlight energy into sugar. But corn has little ground coverage until grown, can't be grown year-round, so on average it's probably < 1%. Solar panels on the other hand are like 20% efficient year-round. It's not even a contest.
Ethanol is only good for corn farmers, ethanol producers, and politicians who are paid off by corn farmers and ethanol producers.
The ethanol land is reusable and low cost.
The solar land would cost hundreds of billions and would need to be disposed of and rebuilt every 5 years.
That's good and all, but why not convert that acreage to food crops and instead invest in clean nuclear energy. Takes up a fraction of the land that solar does without all of the pollution involved in mining the materials for the panels.
Then pay farmers more for fields full of solar panels than for fields of corn.
Their bottom line matters. We're not doing altruism here.
That green dot represents what? Needed for how much solar to accomplish what?
Solar is most effective out west. If people really want to build solar out on scale why is this even a question. New Mexico is 5th largest state. Only has 2M people. 2/3 of state has no trees and desert. You could cover most of the state and it wouldn't effect nothing.
There's a major permanence issue comparing an annual plant to a solar panel.
It's genuinely retarded actually
We grew more acres of corn before we used ethanol. Without ethanol you’d still grow the same amount of corn, you’d just go back to feeding empty calorie corn starch to ruminants
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That one you noticed? In the comments
Full set here: x.com/Naturnest_shop
That one you noticed? In the comments
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This is fucking insane to compare the land used to grow corn, an organic material, with solar, which is essentially equivalent to paving over that amount of earth. You don't hate journalists enough.
The government could simply end the ethanol mandate for gasoline and that land could be used for food or be left fallow. Covering the land, any land with future hazardous waste sites is moronic.
Yes, ethanol mandates are another Democrat investment scam, forcing our tax dollars to burn up food for fuel. Biden extended them to increase the take.
They also consume water from the Ogallala Aquifer that we need to grow food. This is an attack on US food security.
And once the nuclear fusion plant being built in VA right now comes on line, and woke NY has a few of their safe nuclear plants running, no one will need or care about solar or windmills.
You might consider taking up coding instead of “reporting.” The emergence of ethanol was a direct response to oil embargoes of the 1970s & later price increases by OPEC. Its environmental impact was based on its renewability rather than as part of the climate change scam.
You don’t destroy farmland when it’s used to produce ethanol. BIG difference Alex.
Dude ethanol was your guys suggestion not ours. Turning food into gas is retarded.
How much land do we need for solar for nighttime use?
And why are we devoting almost all of the generated power to A.I.? Do we really need images of women with six fingers and four tits?
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What you say is pretty much true about corn/ethanol.
It does not excuse the environmental destruction of solar energy compared to nuclear or geothermal energy.
You claim to advocate for the environment, yet here i see a man calling for a plant to be removed whilst simultaneously screeching about CO2 content in the atmosphere
It is why you people are no longer taken seriously
does covering buildings with solar fill the big area