Post

Conversation

Sheel Mohnot
@pitdesi
This is blowing my mind: BART spends $1.10 in electricity per passenger ride, average ride is 15 miles. My Tesla Model Y is far more efficient: it costs $0.76 to go 15 miles. And it can carry 5 people, so could actually be far more efficient if not traveling solo.
Quote
sophia
@cis_female
BART spends ~$65M/year on electricity, about 6% of it's operating budget. It consumes ~1/700th of all the electricity in California
Last editedOpens edit history
183.2K
Views
View quotes
David Watson 🥑
Post your reply

Sheel Mohnot
@pitdesi
Barts operating costs alone are $1.15 per passenger mile (not including capital expenses!) Vs 70-85c/mi for Tesla all-in costs. For 1 passenger/vehicle!
Quote
Grok
@grok
Replying to @pitdesi and @kimmyjongeats
Yes, the NTD FY24 numbers confirm it. BART heavy rail operating cost alone hits $1.15 per passenger-mile (agency total $1.18). Adding capital amortization pushes it higher. A Model Y's full TCO lands at roughly $0.70–0.85 per vehicle-mile even for one occupant.
17K
Sheel Mohnot
@pitdesi
A lot of people are nitpicking things that make a small difference overall. My point is that I expected operating electricity usage of public transit to be like 5-10x more efficient per passenger than a passenger car with 1 passenger!
8.2K
Sheel Mohnot
@pitdesi
Tbh I thought the boring company tunnel in Vegas was stupid but maybe it isn’t as dumb as I thought to just use teslas as the vehicles in a tunnel
1.6K
Caleb Smith
@smiththought
Ultimately, space is the relevant constraint, not electrical cost. Sending BART’s entire transbay ridership across in Teslas would lead to a massive traffic gridlock even if everyone carpooled. Look at old news articles about the traffic nightmare the last time BART had a strike
5.3K
oskifan
@OskiHoya3
Comparing your Tesla at 5 passengers to BART’s real average is bold, given your car has held 5 people exactly once, at the dealership. Also, by your logic, a half-empty jet is ‘less efficient’ than a car, so I assume you’re driving to Tokyo???
2.9K
Sheel Mohnot
@pitdesi
The comparison is to a Tesla with 1 person. Ans your jet comparison doesn’t make sense since those aren’t substitutes
2.5K
Suresh Venkatraman
@survenk
BART doesn't buy electricity on the retail market from PG&E. Purchase agreements with PPA's and WAPA and others allow for long term hedging.
363
Nik Shah 💯×
@NikhaarShah
Wow, and that’s on declining passenger volume and increasing budget right? And, doesn’t CalTrans have bloated spending like Rivian’s for many engineers? California is a dream for government contractors
4.8K
Peter Yu
@peterxyu
I think you need to show us the math on the $0.76 figure. Given Bay Area power prices, it should be more like $2.00 for 15 miles.
2.5K
Sheel Mohnot
@pitdesi
If you charge at home between midnight and 3pm in SF (which is what I assume most people do), you pay 23c/kwh Model y RWD gets 4+mi/kwh What math are you using to get $2?
2.2K
Matthew
@mattharrisonnn
Feels like an unfair (or at least incomplete) comparison. For one, you can charge your car when it's cheap, while BART by definition presumably draws most of its electricity at peak hours.
1.3K
Sheel Mohnot
@pitdesi
Yeah that’s fair, you can multiply teslas electrify cost by 1.5. The mind blowing part to me was that Bart isn’t 10x more efficient .
1.1K
Sheel Mohnot
@pitdesi
We are comparing apples (electricity cost) to apples (electricity cost). We can compare those other things but note that Bart has those expenses too!
@grok
what is the total fully loaded cost per passenger mile for a Tesla Y and BART?
1K
Jane Manchun Wong
@wongmjane
Personally I switched to taking BART / CalTrain instead of Robotaxi whenever I head to the East Bay / Peninsula around 5pm I might’ve saved money riding the Model Y but I would’ve spent more time in the traffic than transit in rush hour
2.3K
I Kaya
@kaya85kaya
People get confused by steel weels on steel tracks being 10x more efficient vs a tire on a road But tire resistance is only about 25% of resistance at motorway speeds 75% is drag So the steel wheels thing only saves abour 20% of total energy needed
101
Charlie Brountas
@cbrountas
Would be curious what the numbers are on the Washington Metro which is BARTs twin. More ridership and maybe more efficient operations or newer trains?
1
oneworld82
@BarelyTrying92
Too bad that to transport the same number of people BART does you’d require thousands of Teslas who would gridlock even more SF roads
119
Andre Gouws
@probebalboa
Does the Tesla operating cost include the cost of the road infrastructure it drives on? I assume the BART cost is infrastructure + station + train operating cost.
109
aashay2035
@aashay2035
It maybe inefficient. But most of the time I don't want to drive. I can do other stuff when I am on the train.
28
Lobbyist_pundit 💸
@Lobbyist_pundit
I’ve said for a long time passenger rail is the most idiotic, antiquated piece of tech that abuses our grid and takes land that can only be used for a sole purpose that costs hundreds of millions to billions of dollars with little to no net benefit. It’s a shiny pet project.
47
Chris
@ChrisSp58086246
I’m not sure where that figure is coming from, but I suspect it’s including things beyond BARTs transportation. According to BART they claim the equivalent of 249 mpg/passenger. Which is better than a Tesla unless you have a few people in it
210
Steve Crooks
@Steve_Crooks
Using Chat, BART has 20 year contracts for energy and saves about $50M per year compared to PG&E rates. Train updates might save 5-20%? Still quite far behind the individual vehicle. Interesting.
3
Eric23332
@eric23332
It's geometrically impossible for all the people who take BART to SF to switch to cars (Tesla or other). There isn't road space for them to drive there, or parking space for them to park. That's why BART has to exist. Electricity use is a triviality.
7
American Fire
@AmericaYikes
Hey dumbass, you don't have to hire people to operate your Tesla. You also don't need to maintain a fucking train station and hundreds of miles of rail to drive your Tesla.
8
Clove Owl
@CloveOwl
The $1.10 isn’t a physics number, it’s a ridership number. BART buys power at ~18¢/kWh roughly what you’re paying. So the gap is entirely kWh per passenger: ~6 kWh to move one person 15 miles. No train is that inefficient. An empty one is though. BART is at 56% of 2019 ridership
90
Sam Pullara
@sampullara
the all in operating cost is like $16 and the fully loaded cost is like $40 if you include debt service and capital expenditures
584
Harminder Dhillon
@DhillonHariGTA
Your car seems efficient because you are assuming it makes only one trip with 5 passengers. Trains aren't cars used when needed. Trains run - full or half empty. That is what mass transit it. Comparing apples to oranges. Right comparison will be energy consumed by ONE train trip
86