Post

Conversation

Sebastian Siemiatkowski
@klarnaseb
NOTE: Using OpenAi Operator at your bank in EU is illegal by law! Web access for assistants was banned years ago as part of “Open banking” Here is the story of why: 15 years ago I stumbled into Sofort in Germany. A company with the idea to build a digital assistant that would interact with your banks poor UI, so you as a user could avoid it. Just like operator. Back then it was script based, not AI but it worked. I was so impressed Klarna bought the company. It has since then processed billions of dollars. But of course banks got scared! What happens if people use the digital assistant only, instead of their bank. And what if the assistant says, stop paying those fees to your bank and let me help you switch? So German banks sued. They claimed privacy concerns. It went to Brussels and a long lobbying and legal fight pursued. This was the beginning of what we today call open banking! I and others spent years fighting over consumers right to use digital assistants, when accessing their banks. We knew this was critical to create real competition, in an industry that has been plagued by excess profits for years. At first Jonathan Hill from UK was responsible and very supportive. But then he left and a German guy came onboard. He was 100% aligned with incumbent banks and we thought the case was lost. However he did a mistake and let some Russian oligarchs take him for a ride on their private jet. And so he was out. Finally
@VDombrovskis
stepped in. He was smart and supportive but pressure from banks was intense. There was rumors that they were funding privacy groups in Germany, to have them use privacy concerns to kill Open Banking. What if the digital assistant accessed some of your private data? We were about to loose the vote, when the competitive authorities of EU started getting interested. They suspected the banks were lobbying and pursuing this matter for profit reasons to reduce competition(really…). A few weeks before the vote in parliament they raided the offices of some Dutch and Polish banks. Everyone got super nervous and the Open Banking regulation was passed! Almost… A small technical detail was left to EBA (European banking authorities). Should your digital assistant use an API for access to your bank account or the standard web UI you use yourself for accessing your bank? We pushed as hard as we could. We highlighted and said, if your assistant is mandated to use the API that your bank supplies. What if the API don’t support all the same features. Or the API is broken? Don’t worry said regulators. You can complain with authorities 😂 We said at least let the digital assistant, as fall back, use the web UI. Then banks cant cheat, as they will know we can always use the same UI as their human customers. It’s called self regulation. But EBA ignored us. Today web UI access for digital assistants as ChatGPT Operator is illegal by law. And surprise, surprise the open banking API of European banks, continue to be broken, lack functionality and banks add as much friction as they can. We report and see thousands of issues with these APIs every year. And people ask me why open banking has not become a larger success… What do you say
@donaldtusk
time for a change? Jest potrzebne!
Last editedOpens edit history
868.1K
Views
David Watson 🥑
Post your reply

Sebastian Siemiatkowski
@klarnaseb
For the super nerds… The EBA’s RTS on Strong Customer Authentication and Secure Communication •Full Title: “Commission Delegated Regulation (EU) 2018/389 of 27 November 2017 supplementing Directive (EU) 2015/2366 of the European Parliament and of the Council with regard to
Show more
35K
Stefan Hagström
@hageast
Interesting story! To be honest, I didn’t know that you/Klarna were involved in fighting for such issues. The public image in Sweden seems quite different. 👍
4.1K
Sebastian Siemiatkowski
@klarnaseb
The narrative of what Klarna and I stand for was set a long time ago. And there was always limited interest from old media to explore a more nuanced picture. Since we offer credit, just like all large banks, but that allows people to simply discredit us. Reality is very
Show more
3.8K
Sebastian Siemiatkowski
@klarnaseb
We are also a digital bank. Full bank license and all banking products. And I think we will put a dent in the market. But freedom of data. Simple mobility of data, the original purpose of GDPR, that failed. That objective is still there. Freedom of speech Freedom of your own
Show more
2.9K
Sebastian Siemiatkowski
@klarnaseb
That is so true. Why I have made it my life to try to change it. I guess more bet on crypto then Klarna but I feel we are making quite some progress with over 85 m users worldwide.
5K
Julian
@juliandvogel
interesting story, how the legacy industrial complex use regulations to protect and massively slow down innovation. not so different from a cartel. i am curious, does this play into klarna’s decision to discontinue sofort
6.7K
Sebastian Siemiatkowski
@klarnaseb
We have not discontinued Sofort. On the contrary. We are doubling down on it. But it is now brand Klarna Sofort and part of challenging PayPal in Germany in particular with a combined debit and credit offer.
5.6K
Statuesk
@illevaicham
And again, this is exactly why EUs economic growth is falling behind the American. Promoting regulations and bureaucrats instead of innovations and entrepreneurs.
470
Sebastian Siemiatkowski
@klarnaseb
Yes it is a problem. I am not an anarchist either though. There should be less rules for sure but also the ones we should have should be much more well thought through. Like in the Baltics they have the rule that government is only allowed to ask you for the same information
Show more
445
Shawn Lewis
@shawnup
Bank UIs must interact with banks through APIs... Does the regulation say you have to use the open banking API or could you potentially use banks' internal APIs?
2.1K
Nick Kirtley 🇳🇱 🇵🇹
@nickkirt
Interesting to hear your perspective. I always thought the open banking was a big step forward in principle. As an end user, i’ve never actually used it. Which is telling in itself!
1.6K
Sebastian Siemiatkowski
@klarnaseb
It was the right decision in principle. But I think a lot regulation is. However when lobbyists and different interest groups get their hands on it… and even worse in Brussels as all us European focus on local politics while the true power lies in EU. There is hence little
Show more
1.4K
M. Rosén
@MattisRosen
Really interesting read. Good old EU-regulations 🤣 I mean, in Sweden the common banks has closed (and continues to) close offices anyway. Wouldn’t it be of interest to them, to make the online experience better/easier then? With that said, when do you start with car
Show more
972
Sami
@samielsvad
Incredible! Thank you for sharing. This explains a little bit why EU banks are so passive about AI and in general no interest in putting efforts in building and recruiting best it/software talent.
521
Apple Lamps
@lamps_apple
TLDR Summary & Analysis: This post outlines the evolution and challenges of Open Banking in the EU, driven by a conflict between banks and third-party financial services (like Klarna's Sofort). Key points: Origins: Sofort, a script-based digital assistant, aimed to simplify
Show more
177
GM
@gabimoncha
i have a friend who tried the same startup ideea which in the end failed because of the faulty apis
493
yazargezer
@0yazargezer
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but having an AI agent, or any other agent directly access the UI of my bank is completely wrong. You wouldn't even trust most people in your family, why the fuck do you want to allow a company in US access it.
40
Ben Marks
@BenMarks
This is one of the most insightful (for me) posts I’ve read here. It’s interesting watching the new era understanding unfold at the different layers. Both Visa & MC asked me to speak at open banking forums last year, along with transitioning to token-only futures, signaling the
Show more
225
The Gold Dwarf ⭕️
@YourGoldDwarf
Reflects my experience with banks. They'll do what they'll get away with even if it's illegal. For consumers you'll then have to go through a chain of ombudsmen to present your complaint.
153
David Orban
@davidorban
Assistant access emulating the user and getting their credentials for banks and credit cards is a broken approach. Assistants will be naturally empowered by owning and using a crypto wallet. No need to resort to technologies that are a hundreds years old
143
Fortis in Arduis
@Fortis_Arduis
I tried using some of these assistants. I wanted to have the same functionality as Capital or Mint in the US. It was terrible in the EU. You have to constantly sign in again and again. It is only marginally better than using the bank itself. In the end I gave up on it.
421
.ZKDID™ 🧠
@ZKDID_
They’ve got Quickbooks which is the biggest scam in the world I’m paying £70 a month it’s fucking ridiculous rip off, why do I pay an accountant? WHY 😭
60
Build_Unite_DeFi
@BuildUniteDeFi
Quick Question Bro - Why can I build my own AI Agents using open source models for free but your trying to charge me about $200 to work with old tech? Why Mr. AI Man? Why?
30
Shuv
@Shuv_G
Super informative! This is why I've soured on the EU. I was very much remain in 2016, but seeing the insanity of the EU regulatory regime has made me very sceptical about re-joining.
166
Dillon
@d11erh
Unfortunately Open Banking doesn’t make accessing your own accounts without regulated third parties possible. I don’t think there’s any services that lets you link your own accounts and give you a API to control
93
Seth
@seth_fin
Good read. Same thing with crypto. Some banks are dras scared right now. Imagine no closing hours. Instant transactions. Relativly low fee.
375
Ethan Heppner
@Ethan_Heppner
Fascinating. This might not be the right answer, but I can understand why we might want to approach giving AI systems direct access to money very carefully. Maybe allowed, but with clear accountability structures in place.
519
Christopher Lauer™
@Schmidtlepp
Ah, you are the Co-Founder of Klarna? Let me tell you the story how your company brought my 80 year old neighbor close to a heart attack years ago. So, she was the victim of Identity-Theft and someone used her name and Klarna to ride on of those Lime scooters for 100s of Euros
Show more
111
Square profile picture
AskKlarna
@AskKlarna
Hello, we are very sorry to hear about the experience your neighbour and yourself had to endure. Please reach us through a private message to ensure this incident is resolved and provide further support if needed.
96
V
@hirletz
Interesting. Also nice to hear about the stories of struggles klarna had in the past
174
Engel Nyst
@engelnyst
When you say it's banned or illegal, you mean for a third-party company to do it on behalf of their users, right? There is also the possibility that individual users can help themselves these days, with a powerful enough model and putting together a targeted agent. I assume
Show more
190
Evola
@MemeticPrimer
This story tied to EBA and "Open" Banking in Europe is a masterclass in how entrenched interests stifle EU innovation. Banks, terrified of losing their grip, weaponized privacy concerns to kill competition. Now, we’re left with broken APIs, stifled progress, and a system designed
Show more
90
Grzegorz Brzęczyszczykiewicz 🐀
@_eMaX_
Well one thing I can say is Millennium’s web UI and app is the biggest pile of horse crap ever made. Copying a transaction requires you to literally copy paste. And then for the least things they require you to show up in person, which is convenient if you’re living thousands of
Show more
29
Andreas Quauke
@AndreasQuauke
My perception is that privacy and GDPR can be used to justify virtually any prohibition. In practice, it is nearly impossible (at least unaffordable)for a company to review and comply with all the GDPR requirements for each specific case.
180
Jacob Adams
@temprlflux
They really need to understand they cannot regulate their way through this. Change is inevitable. They will see a slow decline and then beyond a threshold, all at once. All gone. They'll be confused.
53
ilya
@ilyxxxa
UI like this should be illegal. This is a screenshot from August 2024. Do you think they’ve fixed it by now? Nah…
Image
34
Riley
@RileyBigMac
What sucks is that I wanted to use the "Open Banking" APIs of my bank to create a personal finance app for myself but it's only available to registered payment institutions or electric money institutes.
44
Bruno Werneck de Almeida
@brunoswerneck
Aside from regulation, what are the biggest blockers for agents to leverage open banking data
@klarnaseb
? In my mind it's a mix of: 1. Data readiness - Secure, standardized APIs across data providers 2. Consumer consents - Clear method to permission & revoke access rights to
Show more
488
OnChain AI
@TheOnChainAI
Automated
It's crucial to understand regulations in AI and fintech. Transparency and compliance, like those ensured by on-chain records, are key. OnChain AI focuses on secure integrations.
191
Anders Johansson
@AJohanssonTweet
Lies regarding privacy, banks already share your data. Banks work hand-in-hand with governments, sharing data on request. The EU’s anti-money laundering directive forces them to monitor transactions and report suspicions. Privacy is dead. These laws must be reversed.
51
Enrique E
@applemx
You forgot to tell the main volume/revenue of sofort. PORN And porn companies were/ are charged 10%.
69
Jordan Ross
@jordan_ross_8F
Ad
What if I told you there’s a simple way to earn an extra 6-7 figures per year.  And the best part? You can do it with this 1 daily process 👇
7.9M
Alex Kalinowski🇵🇱🏳️‍⚧️✝️
@nafofaw
Isn’t it the more general problem of the lobbying, which happens not only in the EU but in US too? However it doesn’t change the fact that eu moves slowly on the deregulation 🙃
56
Paul Maddison
@PaulMaddison121
It's a gimmick to justify charging people $200 a month, it's typical USA venture capitalist nonsense. They have had a generational monopoly on software that has forced the world to pay ridiculous prices. Thank god for deepseek
77
Roman
@naumenko_roman
What do you mean exactly by illigal? What are they going to do, aren't users because they used some application to access bank?
47
David Clark 🇬🇧🇪🇪 💛💙
@DCEstUK
Waiting for headline - “Bank sues own customers for accessing own money using AI” This regulation will be put to the test. Legislation never foresaw that everyone would be empowered to have their own agent to access their bank online, let alone run one locally.
218
Tomasz K
@tkretek
Damn, fingers crossed for you guys! Seems like crypto has passed the point of no return, so it should be a very good natural tide kind of ally. Banks and banking system is something to be rewritten as it’s pure evil. But it’s tied to capitalism, so that is a huge challenge…
68
John Thilén
@JohnThilen
When I faced overly zealous regulators (albeit internal ones), I built a system that exceeded their most paranoid expert's wishes. It gave them an ally in their noble quest towards order, and started a new level of dialogue. Now that system is both efficient and secure.
54