Conversation

A billionaire known as 'China's Elon Musk' is suspected of spying while he was a Duke student and...

"became an actual commie" as opposed to being one the entire time

Yes. He was not a commie. But when they kicked him out back to China, he had to become one.

What % of Chinese students are staying in America though? Can I be forgiven for thinking we are sharing our knowledge with geopolitical adversaries in return for tuition $ that mostly serves to maintain higher ed administrative bloat?

Then a group of Chinese ‘researchers’ stole cloaking and hypersonic materials from David Smith’s lab at Duke and catapulted the Chinese government’s capabilities.

From businessinsider.com

happens a lot in life.

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Zbynek Drab

@ZbynekDrab

Impressive reversal of cause and effect. He was a commie spy the whole time. Getting found out and expelled didn’t actually offend him into becoming a traitor.

imagine losing a guy whose surname literally means money to communism

What would Churchill say?

1.1K

Radek Osmulski

@radekosmulski

Why not hire the best talent from the 9 billion if you can hire the best talent from the 400 million! Love the logic and the novel recipes for success

They didn't get rid of Chien-Shiung Wu (First Lady of Physics), Tsung-Dao Lee (Nobel laureate), and Chen-Ning Yang (Nobel laureate). That should tell you something.

The Joker & the Jinping is a great book title

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Wikipedia has the real story.

This guy Qian Xuesen was instrumental in building the Jet Propulsion Lab in California. What an incredible talent to lose. Nowadays there are hundreds and thousands of similar Chinese tech talents in the US who will face similar fate. Truly dumb.

You aren't even ready to acknowledge existence of a legitimate concern?

The real lesson here is the impact of misguided American generosity: “After graduating from college, Qian was admitted to the Boxer Indemnity Scholarship program, enabling him to study in the United States.” The Boxer Indemnity Scholarship was designed as a gesture of goodwill

Can’t stress this enough. Qian Xuasen MADE China’s nuclear problem

476

Rufus Rutilius

@RRutilius753

Yes, yes, we must give every Chinese person--including those who want to spy on us and steal our IP (which innovation we still develop as Americans)--an espresso and a puppy and treat them super nice and let them do whatever they want to us and with us or we are doomed to fail.

Maga will claim he was a commie all along and him working on icbms proves they were right to deport him.

Fear is the biggest driver of failure

Very good point.

"Became." Riiiiiiiight

in other words, McCarthy was right

India should hire them.

or Not.

Quote

The Stanford Review

@StanfordReview

May 7

INVESTIGATION: Uncovering Chinese Academic Espionage at Stanford. After interviewing multiple anonymous Stanford faculty, students, and China experts, the Review can confirm that the CCP is orchestrating a widespread intelligence-gathering campaign at Stanford. 1/8

743

DC, Last Legion, Infinity Redux

@DerektheCleric

Optimistic Parser (e/opp)

He was going to do it anyway.

Making the assumption he wasn’t a Communist infiltrator all along?

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Jonathan Gorard

@getjonwithit

20h

Fun bit of history: the Navy won the initial contract to launch the first US satellite, because the US didn’t like the optics of it going to a bunch of German immigrants, using an adapted V-2. The Navy’s rocket wasn’t ready in time to beat Sputnik, then blew up on the launchpad. x.com/loganclarkhall…

when exactly did you sell your soul

Some Jews still have an ethnic grudge over communist Jews getting kicked out of the American nuclear weapons program in the 1950s.

The issue is that we have caught and proven that many of these people are legit Chinese spies. How are we to ensure that our most sensitive systems aren’t being compromised by those spies? How could we ever reliably vet for that threat?

Yeah the

had that on their front page today Noah.

139

@TimParsa

Not cultivating the best and brightest U.S. citizens/residents to achieve great things is way dumber. We don't need to import human intelligence, we need to cultivate the minds we have and create many more.

604

The Liberation Project

@TheLibProj

𝑴𝑺𝑵𝑩𝑪 𝑮𝒖𝒆𝒔𝒕 𝑻𝒆𝒍𝒍𝒔 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝑻𝒓𝒖𝒕𝒉 𝑨𝒃𝒐𝒖𝒕 𝑾𝒆𝒂𝒍𝒕𝒉𝒚 𝑬𝒍𝒊𝒕𝒆𝒔 Scott Galloway, multi-millionaire professor gives dire warning about the decline of American capitalism and wealth inequality. ★ NEW ARTICLE

It's not a black and white issue. If you are not being nuanced, you are not doing it right.

"He wasn't a commie the whole time, he just went to China and built their rocket program at the first opportunity." is not the argument you think it is.

Clearly the solution is to execute them instead of deporting them.

IBM fucked over the guy who built TSCM

134

Conservative Bongressman

@TheBongressman

It's a good thing we rejected him. Turns out dude was a commie.

Antonio Graceffo

@Brooklynmonk

Driving away Chinese scientists is rational and right. The FBI has thousands of cases against Chinese nationals for espionage and technology theft. And China's technological advancement is supported by US education of chinese grad students.

He is a commie.

And you dont think no one has stolen US tech and defected to China ?

Chinese people have a culture of hard work and achievement. The people we are expelling today have a culture of crime and violence.

Sounds like Mccarthyism filtered out a commie correctly

James Santory

@JamesSantory

He was a communist and passing secrets to China. McCarthy was correct, but the communists managed to turn public opinon against him. We need a McCarthy today. It is now OK for a congressman to sleep with Chinese spies.

109

Napoleon The Fiddler

@FiddlerNapoleon

"But what about this exception!" You people are literally mentally retarded. How do we deal with you?

Saas

@dari1063

The original sin was to allow this person in the US.

Franklin Harris

@FranklinH3000

Meanwhile, Qian Xuesen's JPL associate Jack Parsons was hanging out with L. Ron Hubbard.

Joe Smith

@joesmith323

When How @ “Grounded A.I.”

In 1929 the United States laid off Herbert Yardley. Left with no income in the Great Depression he wrote a book about the "Cypher Bureau" disclosing that America had broken the diplomatic codes of friends and enemies and had been reading their diplomatic messages.

I agree with the point you are trying to make. But isn't it possible that this guy was indeed a commie.

ABrownHat

@TheBrownestHat

Wait until you hear what happened when America didn't drive away nuclear physicists who had known communist ties...

@hothoehot

One point how come most of these so-called talents made their name in the U.S. but not in their own countries? Will it change in the future?

Satire カルキ

@Kaizou_Bhuvi_17

A Mind is a Terrible Thing

I personally know a Chinese PhD student who's currently doing research in a top university in USA in the field of Quantum Computing He said a year ago that he didn't wanted to go back to China and he hated communism. He wanted to stay in USA. Imagine if he gets deported

The difference is we know CCP industrial espionage is a big problem, and it's practically an avowed policy (civil military fusion, thousand grains of sand etc), there are also documented cases of intimidation. So what do we do about that? Genuinely asking

This was my first thought. Second thought was about AI talent.

100

@dp270

A Mind is a Terrible Thing

He was also instrumental in China developing nuclear weapons.

@dp270

Yup. We're going to do it again.

Selerax

@Selerax

Imagine kicking out a guy who's literally called "money", lol

Kaang Jia- Cheng

@kaangjiacheng

What they call the deep state is actually the rule of law. What they call globalism is also world peace. War gives nationalism meaning but nationalism also wants war.

comrade lei feng

@comradelei_feng

Thank you for your contributions comrade

Everett Keller

@EvKr__

So.... proved the suspicion correct?

shurn-jurn

@devwz

Asians will never be considered real Americans, we might be adjacent but not the real thing

Bruno Bars

@SolutionOrganic

Not saying you're wrong, but do we know that he wasn't actually one in the first place though

World's #1 Incel

@worldsno1incel

just don't let them in to begin with, very simple way to avoid espionage

"became"

Honestly, he was probably undecided between the US & China & the accusations/suspicions just pushed the needle. If he were really an anti-communist, he likely would have revealed or even fabricated intel about China to stay. Goes to show a US-China Iron Curtain is inevitable.

They don't drive away Einstein and Germany researchers. It's all about racism in the end.

Weaponized Autism

@luongo_stephen

Unlike the Rosenbergs, who were American commies that gave Russia a boost with their nuclear program.

Milton R.

@r33124541

He probably had been a communist agent all along

Paul von Oberstein

@P_vonOberstein

Serious question: how do we fight Chinese infiltration of colleges and the tech sector, as well as Chinese citizens acting as spies while enrolled in college?

May the current crop of McCarthyists get the McCarthy treatment.

Second Hand Vegan

@SecondHandVegan

12h

So they were right, and he was a commie.

The Liberation Project

@TheLibProj

𝑾𝒆𝒂𝒍𝒕𝒉𝒚 𝑬𝒍𝒊𝒕𝒆 𝑻𝒆𝒍𝒍𝒔 𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝑻𝒓𝒖𝒕𝒉 𝑨𝒃𝒐𝒖𝒕 𝑾𝒆𝒂𝒍𝒕𝒉𝒚 𝑬𝒍𝒊𝒕𝒆𝒔 Multi-millionaire professor Scott Galloway tells the unadulterated facts about the decline of modern capitalism and extreme inequality. ★ NEW ARTICLE

McCarthy vindicated example number 473626

Wannabe Historian

@wannabehistoria

The guy was already a lost cause.

Storm2137

@StormIrish2137

So the McCarthyist were proven right.

John Smith, esq.

@oaiduejnfhwuq

Read between the lines and it’s extremely obvious that he was a spy the entire time

Matt Damon

@DamonUhhhohhh

As long as it′s not a scientist from pakistan

151

Jeff Seid

@JeffSeidCrew

So he probably was a commie lol

特浪仆

@DJT201701

He later became a general in the Chinese army and the father of China's rocket/ICBM

Michael

@Michael56907782

Isolationists could easily turn this argument around and say that if Quian Xuesen hadn't been educated at MIT & CalTech he would never have been able to turn around and give advanced rocketry knowledge to China. There's room for a balanced approach to all this.

ChuddieTheCondottiero

@ChuddieC

And if he'd never been let in in the first place?

johnnycomelately

@dovenine

They preferred a Nazi to a Chinese. AGAIN.

Andy

@incady

Just insane.. those who forget history are condemned to repeat it.

Cindy

@Cindy8138555272

After Qian, US never has any foreigner hold such a high clearance job any more.

TestUsr5

@Usr5Test

Their products hv not been tested for its reliability so far. Whatever they hv shared to Pakistan were doomed by Indian AD missiles. Now-a-days so much China support from you. Did u switch sides

Unimportant

@Unimportanz

12h

Chinese icbm program makes Russian first strike on America less likely. There's a reason we helped them with their icbm program.

TheMadGaule

@TheMadGaule

No necessarily if you think more than one move ahead.

Pilgrim’s Progress

@AetiustheGreat

A guy named Qian Xuesen took American secrets and built ICBMs for one of the most depraved governments on earth? I bet McCarthy never expected that

Wisconsinite_2020

@Manray_2020

26m

Sounds to me like the McCarthyists were totally vindicated

Bagger288

@Bagger288_

Herr Prof Dr Ing Wolf Graf von Mongoose

He was neither a communist nor a fraudster, though.

@bxxurscsQtCwBW8

Driving away any ethnic Chinese person is stupid, but not as stupid as letting in compromised scientists into sensitive research programs…

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FreeSpeech

@FreeSpeech74756

wrong

Liberals of the World

@Liberalsofthew

False analogies. Immigration is still on… for people who love America

GIF

Yes but also the Russian communists literally did spy on us and developed their whole nuke program based on their espionage

Renzo Ciafardone

@rciafardone

There is one small failure in your argument: McCarthy was 100% right and didn't go far enough.

Brian Klein

@BrianK_1972

Maybe he was a spy and we dodged a bullet. Who casually "becomes" a communist? Noah's argument gets dumber and dumber. As a physicist, maybe he realizes he is too dumb for his field and we need foreigners to replace him

Dirk the Sandman

@TheRealDSandman

Also; “german immigrant?” No no; kidnapped nazi. Wernher cried up and down about how he just wanted to build rockets and shit, but that’s no excuse for demolishing a good portion of london with rocket bombs.

AlexAnderson

@AlexAnderson2K

Time has changed. People like him are called 理工男 (STEM Bro). The biggest CCP supporters type in China. They're already commies before they come to study in the U.S. They're the most brainwashed with the ultimate goal of 报效祖国 (repay the mother nation)

LovelessHart

@LovelessHart

No, we drove him away because he was a spy. Turns out he’s been spending many years, stealing government information and being part of the universities passing info to the commies. Also, why would we need a scientist that only just help the Chinese get into ICBMs?

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Silly Cat

@crassby

Good to see you’re blinded by racial solidarity

Benjamin Pupgh

@benjaminppugh

“Became.” So we let in a pre-existing commie, he stole what he could of our technology, then gave it to an enemy nation. And you want more of this.

Neko-Iris

@zkinx2001

He also forgets this Nazi guy

ɢᴇɪsᴛᴊᴀᴇɢᴇʀʟᴜғᴛᴡᴀɢʜüɴ

@2358Gjl

The nuclear tech that made such missiles useful was provided by zionist spies.

T-bone

@tchon

Coffee and Chocolate Games

Imagine in another parallel world, America captures the hearts and minds of the world’s most talented and hard working scientists, especially from China. Then we brain drain China with that talent by putting them to work on the next Manhattan projects for America and we keep

@RealCoffeeChoco

That's not the entire story. Qian (Tsien) expressed that he wanted to return to China - putatively to visit - just as the Communists were marching through Beijing. This wasn't purely a "dirty communist chinese" thing. The feds may have been wrong, but let's not distort things.

Sayak Banerjee

@SakBanerjee22

41m

Chinese are known for spying and stealing IP Licensing. A 2020 China Task Force, made up of 15 bipartisan House members, issued a report that found that “The CCP seeks to overtake the U.S. as the global leader in technology through IP theft, industrial espionage, and other

Eric Nutt

@EricNutt11

Habeas corpus, the right to challenge one's detention in court.

So, he really was a commie.

The Washington Post

@washingtonpost

Trump officials suggest suspending habeas corpus. Here’s what it means.

From washingtonpost.com

So how do you vet who is a legitimate Chinese scientist interested in helping us, and who is going to commit espionage on behalf of the CCP? Serious question because I am pro legal immigrant, pro meritocracy, and pro hoarding smart people to advance our interests. Unfortunately,

Samuel Culper 722

@politiwars

Japan's population crisis: Foreign farmers helping keep agriculture alive | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News

80% of Communist China scientists educated in the U.S. go back to work for Communist China. What's REALLY dumb is educating Communists.

silois

@tellmechase

You forgot the part where Clinton gave away all Our secrets to china

Kerry Kaneko

@ShinmenTakezou

While the US is driving away foreign farmworkers, Japan needs both more foreign farmers and foreign farmworkers to keep Japanese agriculture alive.

From nhk.or.jp

Winnie

@tsteve497748

America did the same to Soviet scientists, It makes sense to do the same to Chinese scientists as well

Shane O'Brien

@njdevilz324

Could the ccp threaten a Chinese Ivy students family that’s still living in China to get similar info today?

Damien

@Damien74068080

JD Vance: We don't want Chinese peasants

sometimes unlucky

@SumtimesUnlucky

This guy came to America when he was 24 and learned from US. We gave him training and IP and sent him back. Nowadays the spies can come and go freely! And remain a resident. Let’s build up our own young men instead of having 50% foreigners at our top universities

Trooff

@hermetic4848

So in conclusion, he was a Commie, and DID help them build rockets

McPhail son of McPhail

@McphailOf

So wait, he couldn't go to Taiwan? Why? Was he afraid perhaps because of his political inclinations?

Orb2

@Common_Mine

So Mccarthy was right. Plus, some chinese students who come that have scholarships with the CCP are required to report and spy for China.

sentimentai

@iSentimentaI

So how did you determine he wasn't a commie before being deported?

Moose

@vairatiputra

Patrick McGee - "Apple in China: The Capture of the World's Greatest...

You've got your head up your ass if you think there aren't enough smart Americans to do research. There's maybe one open faculty position for every 1000 US PhD graduates. If you want to compete with China, then curb offshoring.

youtube.com

Award-winning journalist Patrick McGee joins Jon Stewart to discuss how Apple built China in his new book "Apple in China: The Capture of the World's Greates...

Jamal Ginsberg

@Autistus00

52m

Except he was always one and this prevented secrets from being stolen. McCarthy was correct and the term should be retired

@MP32850564

US has driven away scientists and intellectual long prior to Trump, the world multipolar, stop living in the past, US excellence based on post WW2 luck resulting in USD dominance is over, everyday there is more erosion and will continue to be, you Americuck / ZIocuck

Alex (XY)

@alexlyle

Maybe he was in fact a communist. Why else would anyone want to move to Mao’s China?

Bob Doe

@DoeBob76608

SPREAD THE TALENT!! It’s great to see Chinese engineers help their nation instead of supporting Western liberalism.

Nickel

@Dogbanker

12h

Nah, he’s just a propaganda mascot. The real architects of China’s nuclear and missile systems were Soviet experts. You guys really need to stop buying into propaganda.

Ryan Sims

@sims1514291

Hindsight is really dumb.

Knight2dayagain

@natespopve76659

59m

The Democrat party has been pushing communism for decades and it was Bill Clinton that gave China nuclear missile technology. The DNC took money from the CCP. Chinagate treason.

Victor Robert

@viktorobert