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German-Jewish Emigres and U.S. Invention

Based on commencement speeches, it looks like antisemites in academia are doing their best to drive the Jewish ones away too

True

Why is the chart cut off at 2010 - 15 years ago ??

Because it's just meant to show the change in 1940.

Hmm seems more like they acquired Nazi ones since the post 45 period dominates. You do see a small blip in the 30s but nothing like the immediate post-war period

It takes a while for Nobel-winning research to win Nobels, so you have a lag.

nber.org

I do think we need an answer to the “CCP will imprison your family if you don’t betray America” vuln. Some sort of “they can come too” but idk how you do that without all sorts of cursed adverse selection / gaming problems

Greg R. Lawson

@ConservaWonk

Isaac Yonemoto is cooking

Fair point, but two things immediately spring to mind in response. 1) Given the levels of espionage, the leverage the CCP has on family members remaining in China, etc, what is the response for being security conscious while still leaving a door open? Not saying the current

Man, last week you tell me I’m an ashkenazi Jew and just when I started to feel cool you tell me this!?

Let me know if you want to write this up and publish it on The Cycle

361

@DNAutics

20h

Well yeah that's because the jews have an intense cultural tradition (and possibly genetic predilection, as evidenced by high rates of autism) of truthseeking. IIUC there is even a tradition of treating *religion* critically among rabbis.

What's happened to the Jewish ones then? What makes the Chinese scientists most important?

You need to work hard to prove China will accelerate on science. The US accelerated because of intellectual freedom. China is persistently behind on product innovation. The best innovators are not at Harvard. They are at places like tesla. Harvard demise will come from it's

No top US school expanded its capacity to keep with population growth. The subsidy thing is silly. US schools constrained supply and expanded demand and jacked up the price. The refuges from Germany, were refugees. US didn’t accept 100k Soviet students into its unis in the

Jews of Kaifeng though?

In the Three Body Problem the aliens attack Earth’s scientists to undermine our technology. It’s s clever strategy but an even better one is to recruit the other side’s scientists to your side, both weakening them and strengthening your own science

Operation Paperclip: "Am I a joke to you?"

Maximum-Diffusion Sparse Reinforcement Learner

@MaxDiffusionRL

18h

Chinese still aren't winning nobels

tesla punk

@beefcubee

15h

well. how many chinese got nobel prize in science? 0

francolio

@francolio

18h

We make more of the Nobel prize than it deserves

One problem, most Chinese students return to China once their education is done. If you want to select for only those that want to become American citizens, then we can find common ground.

Joshua

@JoshStall

So China is going to dominate more...

How much of that is from tech stolen from the US?

Karen

@kwstewart94

Quote

Elizabeth Farah

@ElizabethFarah

22h

I wonder if the fact that over a million foreign students are admitted to US schools, makes it harder for OUR BEST AND BRIGHTEST to get into

American colleges? Just wondering. Of course discrimination against white and Asian Americans is endemic. #universities #f1 #Asian x.com/afsaalumni/sta…

Those sweet checks from the CCP

The US still getting the most Nobels

446

@SKmacro

22h

This is true, with one caveat. The Jews leaving Germany for the US... nobody had concerns about their loyalty for obvious reasons.

Chinese-Americans. ABC.

Felix Goldberg

@FelixGoldberg1

Well, fascists gonna fasc

Steve, DANIELS DEFENDER

@GigachadsRISEup

13h

Just making up things lol

Helloworld

@trojanworld333

And how many nobel prizes have Chinese got?

If they can be Germans, then Chinese, why not americans?

192

@sheelu2611

16h

How is China neck and neck on innovation with America? Are we benefitting more or are they? Do Americans have the same opportunities in China? Who has benefitted the most from this relationship? It’s obvious it’s not us.

Motown Boy

@motown5203

The major issue is that Chinese students have been indoctrinated by decades of state control. Chinese are nothing but IP thieves and organized criminals. Anything we teach or they discover will go straight back to the CCP.

And yet Germany still fought the allies single-handedly with its remaining scientists…

Yes, but also this:

Quote

Emil Kirkegaard

@KirkegaardEmil

May 25

Replying to @KirkegaardEmil

Looking at the broader construct of misconduct, we can do the same thing. It seems East Asians commit this about 40x times more than Europeans. Staggering.

You are just making it up out of thin air. No context to substantiate your claim.

A Savory Quiche

@0xQuiche

22h

Mmmm no. It’s because we took all the Nazis.

And a lot of American secrets ended up with the Soviets because the scientists we took in were communists and so were some of the local born ones.

James Murphy

@n6532l

15h

Quit confusing the lefties with facts. They are certain our schools are no good and we are dependent on foreigners.

Samuel Culper 722

@politiwars

And the vast majority go back to China. To be turned against the U.S. and Europe. WE SHOULD NOT BE EDUCATING COMMUNISTS. China’s positional change within the global political economy has resulted in a continuous expansion in the scale of Chinese students returning home

Great. Jews weren’t national security threats when they fled Germany. Also they are allegedly equivalent thanks to IP theft and espionage. So why is it we should continue with this? can we please stop with the sh*t arguments and comparisons?

uhhhhhhhhhhhh hahahahahahaha ummmmmmmmm something else happened in 1940 with the scientists noah....

And... where do all the top chinese scientists go again?

Jimmy

@ArtificialJimL

16h

If Chinese is Jews, it means China will be Asia’s Israel?

QuantumSpark

@rockets4all2

Not going to lie. I don’t support this policy. Now can we get the Democratic Party to drop their 10,000 insane beliefs?

Good point. When the Chinese start kicking out their scientists, and those scientists need an adopted home, I'm all for stepping up. But that's not what's happening. China is a geopolitical adversary, and they heavily abuse our tolerance and openness to steal shit from us through

Joe

@tweetingboa

Orn “Nullius in verba” Two

Bruh. The NIH recently outsourced its dubious virology to China. How did that work out?

I've reviewed papers from China. I can tell you right now that your statement is ridiculous on its face. Also this:

Quote

Joe

@tweetingboa

May 30

Replying to @barnes_law

Not just by law. It's hard not to be a spy for a government that can punish (via the social credit system) or disappear your family back home at any time, whether you want to or not. 😮‍💨

. the premise that the PRC dominates science is false . they steal intellectual property and copycat .

@orntwo

16h

The specific intelligence which seems to thrive and generate from so many foreign educational systems and immigrant cultures becomes less and less important in the world of AI. This will be the century of the Liberal Arts generalist.

Derek Harper

@dnharper

That, and the US funded basic science to an incredible degree trying to get a leg up on the Soviets.

The comments (sometimes indelicately) raise an important point: China is, de facto, an enemy state, and is well-known to use its leverage over citizens abroad. I'll be clear that I don't think kicking out Chinese students indiscriminately is appropriate or warranted. But if...

You really should spend time on the evidence before making claims

Quote

John Neilsen

@jhnnminow

May 28

Replying to @ChrisO_wiki and @JonBruner

This is shoddy evidence for your claim. All you have to do is go through the list of winners. The vast majority in 30s to 50s were born in the USA en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A

burby_geek

@burby_geek

germany also made some big advancements during the war. jet engines and others

Exemplar Septentrionalis

@North_Forebilth

global scientific leadership passed from Germany to America in the 1940s because America literally kidnapped every German scientist who wasn't nailed down in 1945.

Joel Basson

@joelbasson

20h

So China has the most Nobel laureates now?

Want an ice cream?

@eyezcreems

This isn’t demonstrative of anything. The USA was world class in technology and engineering by 1870.

The one question I have is how much one can trust Chinese scientists with family still in China: if they are working on something important, how much of a hold does the regime have over them?

Germany was distinguished but not the leader. The devastation following the war was what catapulted the US into the lead but the UK and the US always surpassed the Axis countries in science and applied engineering. Nazi propaganda about wonder weapons was just that.

Raheem Williams

@Aguy701

A Mind is a Terrible Thing

I noticed this argument never has applicable data. How many Chinese students actually stay in America? How many of them win prestigious prizes.

Name one Chinese invention that changed the world. Germany in 1870-1938 had many of those.

@dp270

You might want to do an article about Qian Xuesen and what the US gave to China when it deported him.

I like how you make a statement with an image that completely counters your thesis. Is this a meme post?

I won't disagree on the importance of immigrants to American science, however this monocausal explanation of American dominance post-1940 is off. The % of American Nobel Laureates who are foreign born didn't change drastically during this period:

And you know this based on vibes?

Carlos

@sharintaint

We probably should do something about our collegiate system going so far to shit that the only worthwhile scientists we can produce are foreigners. Why is American academia so obsessed with worthless politics that we no longer create anything of value?

And, my suspicion is that American scientific standing will fall further as RFK Jr implements his "no writing articles for scientific journals" order

Jersey Mike

@sturmovikdragon

Then we've already lost just like every other company in the China cycle.

243

@B7849290511965B

22h

I wonder what else happened in the 1940s that might have had more of an impact than a few Jews and socialists leaving Germany

This is still TBD.

Nobel prize are biased

The key word is scientists. Not students.

543

Ahmad Hijazi

@_AhmadHijazi

"Science is uncertain most of the time. It is a social process, embedded in social contexts. Scientists can be biased. Our vision of science as an ultimate truth is itself a convenient approximation." The Fuzzy Truth of Science | Fuzzy on the Dark Side ahijazi.website/fuzzy-on-the-d

i don't know how deep is your knowledge regarding contemporary science... but it's not the same as it used to be 100 years ago. today science is mostly bureaucracy with scientific flair

Pelouch

@Pelouch4

14h

That's a very simplistic view of things. Germany had a change in policies, was being boycotted by almost all jewry and was involved in a multi front war while the US was at peace. The US also had an abundance of jews before new migrating jews arrived.

It's still jewish

Foreign Students are great. Thats why Harvard doesn't deserve them.

@JPORiley1

@VP

lied about this flat out. Arguing that “most” scientists responsible for the 1960 aerospace developments were “Americans” -discounting that many of them were not only decedents from immigrants <1923 but were benefiting from research by immigrants.

DeBlasio-kills-Grammy

@ixnayielays

Maybe that's because they stopped letting the Jews in!

John Quincy Adams Fan

@redfang58

We had a super restrictive immigration policy back then thanks for admitting it wasn't the end of the world.

Dr. Redneck, Ph.D.

@Gwenbors1

Herr Prof Dr Ing Wolf Graf von Mongoose

They’ve also allowed us to very effectively camouflage the fact our public education system is utterly failing our kids by pumping our enrollment numbers with international students.

Very informative graph, however, I am struggling to see the leadership in the Laureate numbers from China in the 2010s.

Germans didn't "kick them out", they killed them.

@bxxurscsQtCwBW8

Rick and Morty Fans For Trump

Replicators…

@femcelwrangler

We took in those German scientists on the presumption that they wouldn’t take all their research and hand it to the nazis. How can we expect the Chinese to not do that?

Jeff Lefebreve

@JLefebreve

Thats a bit simplisitc.

This does nothing to solve the alignment problem

HairyDinosaur

@nooriginalnick

20h

How did Germany dominate seriously wtf

unamas

@unamas4ever

What’s the answer to CCP spying?

Arjen Dijksman

@materion

They are Chinese or they are American of Chinese origin?

Kewgardens

@kewgardens1

I don’t expect a lot of American scientists are going to move to China. So . . .

Zinotchka

@Zinotchka616

Chinese scientists trained where?

katie wright

@katiewr31413491

ridiculous analogy - in now way is that relevant to what’s happening ing today

And there are plenty of Chinese Americans who want to major in science. Maybe our top universities should stop discriminating against them.

@ghointin

@ghointin21466

11h

Really? Where is Chinese dominance of science in your graph?

PandorasBoxers

@BoxersPandoras

Per capita they are definitely still Jewish, but yeah, China has 1 Billion people.

We don't care

The United States accepted German refugees, not Nazis. Wernher von Braun relocated to the U.S. after the fall of the Third Reich. Admitting potential spies who could transmit intelligence and carry out sabotage would have been imprudent.

fred cheng

@csyfred163

Children of Chinese corrupt officials will not be expelled, Most of them study finance and law. Chinese students with excellent intelligence and morality will be expelled.

cgordon33

@CCGordon33