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Ezra Klein
@ezraklein
This is an important comment. Dems listen too much to "the groups" is being coded as an anti-leftwing view, but it's about a broader culture of coalitional cowardice that often doesn't have a strong ideological view one way or the other. It just doesn't want anyone inside the tent to be too upset.
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Saikat Chakrabarti
@saikatc
Whenever I hear about how Democrats listened too much to the left, I think often about the Loan Shark Prevention Act I worked on that AOC and Bernie introduced into Congress. It would put a 15% cap on payday and credit card loans. When we polled it, it was hugely popular
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David Watson 🥑
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Zeeshan Aleem is also on Blu*Sky
@ZeeshanAleem
Generally the way people discuss "the groups" recently involves critiquing small social movements, subcultures, nonprofit-level advocacy. Notably missing among the "groups" is lobbyists & bundlers on behalf of capital, major industries. Do you think that's a problem?
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blink
@gazaonmymind
Keep not mentioning AIPAC. Definitely do not, under any circumstances, mention AIPAC. Again, please do not mention AIPAC. Thank you.
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Tim Barker
@_TimBarker
do you care, or even notice, that your buddy immediately responded to this by confirming that this discourse is, in fact, inherently anti-leftwing?
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Tim Barker
@_TimBarker
why is the criterion "adopt politically toxic left-wing policies" and not "adopt politically toxic policies"? x.com/mattyglesias/s…
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Jack Geldhart
@jackgeldhart
It's a good point, but I wish 10% or 15% credit card rate cap wasn't used to illustrate it -- this law would backfire spectacularly once people realize it doesn't mean THEY can get a 10% cc.
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Heidi N. Moore
@moorehn
You're only making a case against democracy here. We have presidents, not kings. It is their job to listen to "the groups." If they don't want to listen to "the groups," they're free to go live under a monarchy instead.
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C B Miller
@sisboombahbah
Why is lowering credit card interest rates not “safe” for Dems but it’s fine for the GOP? How did the world get so upside down?
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Zhana Vrangalova, PhD
@DrZhana
I think it's often confusion about which aspects of the left they were listening as much as coalitional cowardice. It's not a single axis from left to right. There are two separate axes: economic and social issues. Dem party has been too far left on social issues and practically
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Jeff Rose
@JeffRose8
I respectfully disagree. The Dems are controlled by and aligned with the wealthy and corporations, and have been since 1992. Consequently, they lack a coherent economic strategy. Obviously, they can’t come right out and say “We sold you out.” As a result they focus on social
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Jason Schripsema
@jschripsema
They’re not cowardly at all, they’re greedy. They make soooooo much money from their banking and insurance donors they’re never going to be the champions of the American people. And guess what, the people are starting to wake up to this fact.
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Chris Harihar
@ChrisHarihar
There’s so much focus on policy after an election where the candidate with fewer policies but clearer messages won. The dynamic has shifted—voters care less about detailed policies and more about authenticity and emotional connection. General policy alignment still matters, but
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Alexander B. Howard
@digiphile
Democrats also listen too much to lobbyist from across industry and the military industrial complex. The blob is more powerful than “the groups”. The head(s) of the party were unwilling to criticize brazen corruption by the mayor of of New York and former senator of New Jersey.
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Bonn!
@Possiblyinabit
That’s true of Republicans, also. It’s why it’s important to stick to your values and find people who align with them (esp. locally and in primaries), regardless of party or lack thereof.
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Very Insignificant Person
@VeryInsig
The fundamental problem with the left is that its animating spirit - the hope for some future utopia - reflects a hatred for what already exists - traditional values, social norms, national culture & history, the structure & arrangements that families operate with, etc.
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D. Malcolm Carson
@dmalcolmcarson
Right now, this has to do with the fact that it's a "blob" lacking strong individual leaders. A blob is always going to slide towards the lowest common denominator, which means very bland positions.
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JHotard, PhD, psychologist
@upine
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Aren R. LeBrun
@arenrlebrun
The “far left” platform is harmful to billionaires’ investments, therefore it gets crushed by Democrats. The “far right” platform is beneficial to billionaires’ investments, therefore it gets absorbed by the GOP. Everything else in US politics occurs downstream from this dynamic. x.com/ezraklein/stat…
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g_the0ry
@g_the0ry
Both of you missed the mark. Democrats suck bc their true constituents are not the people they were elected to represent. Their true constituents are the donors. That’s why they never pass popular laws — they don’t want to upset their donors.
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Sgt_Mac87
@Sgt_Mac87
They clearly know what’s right… but for some reason have chosen to pursue fringe cultural battles vs helping the majority of Americans improve day to day lives.
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Matt Fleming, Florida Expert 🌴🥥
@Matt_Fleming321
Lol. That's projection. The people with the largest platforms are who you are talking about. Which includes yourself. Until the Democrats rediscover their New Deal roots, and unite around large concrete reforms and policy this fecklessness will continue. Here's a cheat sheet.
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Steven Klaiber-Noble
@snoble
It doesn't want the loudest people in the tent to be too upset. So instead others quietly leave the tent. It feels like if Democrats would start kicking out loud assholes it would end up way ahead. But yes, this takes courage.
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Wrong Think
@neverwrong_88
Dems should be spending more time on X listening to what real Americans think. Instead they're self-isolating on Blues*y. Unlike you. Smart move.
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Hamid Bendaas 🇩🇿🇵🇸🇮🇷
@HBendaas
The group of bros making the argument with you are explicit that they mean left-wing groups. Jentleson names Sunrise and ACLU, your examples on PSA were immigrant rights groups. Why don’t you ever mention AIPAC and Fairshake for steering Dems to unpopular views?
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@Zablaba
The people making the “groups” criticism have specifically named liberal and left groups, and specifically said they’re not talking about billionaires and AIPAC
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LeftOfTheDial
@EricShapiro3
Who is doing the “listening” in this scenario? “The Dems” don’t exist independently of “the groups;” they ARE the groups. And the “group” that holds the power is almost always the donor class, not “the left.”
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Old Woman Seeking Justice
@GrownRoom
LOL. Which “groups” did the Democrats ultimately decide to team up with? AIPAC, Uber, BlackRock, & Raytheon “groups,” or some random anti-war, human rights organization?
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David Favstar Wallace
@DavidFavstar
This would be more believable if all of the people blaming "the groups" weren't the very corporate centrists in control of the party just losing to Trump again (Yglesias, Shor, Jentleson, etc.).
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Thomas
@djamesalicious
Remember when you had to write a whole article apologizing for believing Paul Ryan? You're setting yourself up for another one
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ᴅʀ ᴛᴀᴅ
@Dr_Tad
It’s less ideological than being beholden to an active layer that poses as socially-representative but in fact isn’t. Because the social institutions that once shaped politics are long gone. And they can’t be recreated from the political sphere, so there’s no obvious fix.
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Miss Norma Jeane 🗽🇺🇸 🏴‍☠️💋🐾
@rosanthony3
I think you guys overestimate how much issue taking matters and underestimate how much an anti-establishment vibe matters to Trump-Biden-Trump voters Bernie codes as anti-establishment But even then? I bet most of these voters would still pick Trump over him.
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PJA
@PJA9
Candidates and the party writ large need to actually believe in things and project pride and confidence in those beliefs. The refusal to do that goes, as the saying goes, "both ways."
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Tall Tiramisu
@TallTiramisu
I think there's an important distinction to make. 1. Internal conflict is good. 2. Many in left-spaces view opposition to Democrats as good in and of itself. 1 is good. 2 is bad. 2 is where you're now outside the big tent.
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Kathryn Levy
@KathrynLevy
This is left/right framing is not helpful. We need to focus on issues and the best away to approach them to help the largest group of people.
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Terrel Champion
@TerrelDreamer
If people voted Republican specifically because they are bigoted toward Trans people, they were very likely never going to vote for Democrats anyway. We shouldn’t throw marginalized people under the bus to court votes we won’t win. Why is this hard to understand?
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melanism
@Melanism
Dems are too afraid to take a firm position on anything because they feel that the GOP will turn it into a negative.
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Neek Neek
@neekneek71
Btw, the reason Trump is willing to do the broadly popular/specifically unpopular thing is because he has NO ideological view. Republicans aren’t doing it on their own, they just go along when he does. They will continue until he leaves the stage bc they can’t win w/o his voters
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rockmom☘️
@rockmom
The groups are focused on social issues and utopian stuff like Net Zero. There really isn't a powerful group advocating for financial reforms to help low- and middle-income people. I guess there isn't a billionaire who cares enough about it to find a group.
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Aaron Wren
@AaronWren86
I don’t disagree with the general premise, we have to get over offending every group in the party (which apparently I need to remind centrists, doesn’t mean dabbling in bigotry, just less than the GOP), but the reason we don’t do bill like that, is because it’s bad policy lol1/2
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Danstevejon
@danstevejon1
I mean a lot of it is anti leftwing, just not on economics. There is though a cowardly tendency not to offend business even though democrats themselves can’t seem to bring themselves to embrace business either
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Greg Packnett
@Triceratops235
The problem with The Groups isn’t that they’re left wing, it’s that they don’t have any constituencies but Dems act like they do. If they treated them like people who have good policy ideas occasionally but are useless for helping to win elections, that would be an improvement
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Josh Hunt
@Bouje99
Long time listener of yours and I get your point here but I think this particular example is just …. bad. In what world do we cap credit card rates at 10 or 15%? It’s an absurd number and would hurt the poor esp in inflationary times.
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Ryan Moilanen
@AuraLeeHarvey
My impression is different. Dem “leadership” does seem to have an ideology, it just knows that it’s not popular, so they’re coercive.
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Mark Dawes
@mdawes2
Ezra, isn’t Chakrabarti’s comment de rigueur for politics. I would think “doing nothing” with no political downside characterizes the politics we’ve had on both sides of the aisle for a very long time.
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USMNT 🇺🇸 Truth
@FreedomSoccerT1
I think the general issue is that a lot of rich people on the coasts want to get onboard with the Dem social issues, but don’t want policies that’ll hurt their pockets or businesses. Noticed it personally moving from a working class area in Ohio to SF.
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Jon Connolly
@jon_connolly
Good faith Q: If the coalition leadership has a “strong ideological view” and is unafraid to anger coalition members, does that tend to produce a larger or smaller coalition? Struggling to square “expand the tent” and “don’t fear conflict” in The Discourse
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Tom Sexton 🍊
@ResponsorialTom
It could also be true that despite polling well, it would be unpopular once the effects are felt. Capping interest rates on debt would make it harder for low income families to borrow. Think Biden pulling out of Afghanistan.
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Henry
@solidatroomtemp
"culture of coalition cowardice" is kinda true but it doesn't get you very far. you think they didn't do the anti-loan shark bill because of hurt feelings??? kamala was very happy to upset arab americans over gaza. many such examples.
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Scott Thomson
@zinjanthropus64
Side issue, and I'm not saying the legislation is good or bad, but it takes a hell of a lot of nerve to impose a lower cap on legal interest rates and call it the Loan Shark Prevention Act.
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Sir biggybadblanket, PhD MD
@biggybadblanket
The dems mistake was removing too much internal institutional pressure. It was all external. Now that they lost, badly, the internal pressure is back. The problem? This pressure feels manufactured. Mechanical. Finger pointing against the obvious problem for us - the outgroup.
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David Doak
@SouthPoint1000
Ezra is right IMO. No one is advocating abandoning fundamental commitment of the causes of our coalition, merely that our candidates be given the freedom to disagree on the most radical of positions, and not be attacked by the groups. As an aside, one of the reasons "kitchen
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Joseph Britt
@Zathras3
There were plenty of Democrats jumping up with House Republicans and clapping like trained seals when a certain foreign leader addressed them last summer. It’s only “the groups” Fox News targets that Democrats are supposed to abandon.
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Nick 🦊
@nickisonaroll
Dems certainly seem to be fine with upsetting the far left. Utter contempt for people who care about Gaza. Lip-service for anything that helps the poor.
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Moti
@sententiousness
The party is now protecting the institutions and IMO rightly so in this case. Capping interest rate will push people to the gray market which will have severe consequences
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Ben Niall
@BenNiall1
It’s not complicated - listen on the border and yes be seen to be tougher on the border - and fight the oligarchs and the system that they rig for themselves It’s a working class coalition - it’s not the policies per se - Biden did an amazing job but he ignored the border
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Joey Saviano
@JoeySaviano
The issue isn't ideology at all. It's that material interests (for both fundraising and running the state and economy) shape the parameters of what is possible, ideologically or otherwise.
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Non Opinion Haver
@Tiger1187
Fair, but this is still a bad idea. There are a bunch of bad and good ideas that poll well, that doesn’t mean those ideas are motivational for voters.
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Atom Ergon
@tmorange
Seems an equally valid conclusion to draw from Saikat’s
@saikatc
example that Dems chose *not* to help the working classes in part because “the groups” also prioritize other interests over economic ones?
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Chris OIIey
@chrisoIIey
I don't agree with the premise? Trump isn't going to be able to pass a 10% cap on credit cards because Republican groups do not support that
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john oconnor
@JohnOconnor51
I’m not a psychologist but my sense is that red tribe members are much more comfortable with risk than blue tribe members. Fortune favors the bold.
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