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Mark Z. Jacobson
@mzjacobson
Next time someone complains about how much land is needed by solar, point out that powering entire US for all purposes with PV replaces 1.24% of US land used for corn ethanol and 1.3% of US land used by fossil industry with 0.7% of land used for PV, part of which can go on roofs.
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Mark Z. Jacobson
@mzjacobson
Far more land is taken up to grow corn for ethanol (30 million acres) than is needed for utility PV (17+ million acres) to power the entire U.S. for all energy- electricity, transportation, buildings, and industry after full electrification cleantechnica.com/2024/09/06/far @cleantechnica
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David Watson ๐Ÿฅ‘
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Robert White
@fuelinggood
The best question is why do you want to start with the most productive farmland? It is not where you need the power. Cover parking lots, schools, dividers of interstates, desert and the list goes on and on. You can eliminate ethanol (you are not considering all markets,
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Mark Z. Jacobson
@mzjacobson
Replacing 30 million acres of corn used for ethanol with 13 million acres for utility PV (with the other 4 million acres of PV going on rooftops leaves 17 million acres of corn to be used for food above and beyond all the corn for food today.
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zipjet
@zipjet
Keep in mind that removing the carbohydrates from corn to convert it into ethanol leaves all the proteins in a form that is more readily and efficiently utilized by the cattle and other animals who are fed the product. So your 1 to1 implied comparison is not accurate.
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Mark Z. Jacobson
@mzjacobson
Only 40% of of the corn material, or 12 mil acres (0.4 x 30 mil ac) is left over for that Replacing ethanol+fossils with PV & using only 13 mil ac utility PV+4 mil ac roof PV leaves 17 mil ac for more corn, more than the 12 mil for animals. Plus, leaves 31 mil acres from fossils
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Tristan Cunha
@cunha_tristan
You can tell people don't actually care about the environment when they complain about solar, but not ethanol. Ethanol is just a massive waste of resources and money. It's an inefficient way to subsidize farms. Replacing it with solar would be a huge improvement.
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Tarellion
@tarellion
Disingenuous. That corn that's grown for ethanol is also used as feed which is then sold for a lot of money overseas. Jobs like my first one and the one my father still has would be HEAVILY impacted in a negative way; not to mention all the farmers and cattle who'd be SOL.
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Marlon Kevlar
@thekevlar
If every parking lot in the US was covered in PV that would be enough energy to power all residential transport in cities, with almost zero air pollution. And NO land would have been used...
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Tom Dickson
@checkthetweande
Thereโ€™s a video from like 20 years ago where Elon is speaking to a group over in Europe. He states that the land needed for nuclear power stations and their exclusion zones surrounding them would be sufficient to power the world.
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Rick Langel
@RickLangel
Um, farms can still grow corn and soybeans with or without ethanol. Once you put in a solar panel field, it's not being used for anything else.
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Peter Levis
@traxila
And of course there is the 20% of US arable land we have destroyed over the past few decades by infusing it with PFAS with city sewage sludge fertilizer. A reckoning no one wants to face or discuss. And land that should not be used for food anymore. Maybe we can find a
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O Man ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ Slava Ukraini!
@bad_packet
Yeah. Big account on here complained about a large(st?) solar field in Oz (in red). There just happened to be a coal mine in the same frame from google maps. And the solar was clearly built on (likely marginal) farmland as anything untouched in this region is rough terrain
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Clark Meyer
@clarkbeast
Just tell them โ€œNext time you fly in an airplane, look down at all of the flat-roofed warehouses baking in the sun that could have panels. Look at the acreage of asphalt that could have solar canopies.โ€
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simon blackmore
@blackmore_s
And thereโ€™s been studies that show if the panels are staggered, the land underneath can still be used to grow stuff. Grass for grazing sheep, vegetables that require some shade from harsh direct sunlight.
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Greer Poplin
@GreerPoplin
We don't dedicate that much farmland to corn because we need ethanol though. We pay subsidies to farmers who grow corn and create more of it than we know what to do with so the government also now makes them put some ethanol in gasoline
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S/V Lady M ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ
@BwanaLawFirm
The rooftops of every commercial building in the US should be covered in solar panels. Parking lots should have solar panels too. This is a realistic goal given the correct government incentives program.
@KamalaHQ
what about that?
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Inconel
@Inconel3
The value of solar really kicks in when there is some sort of energy storage that is cost-effective. That doesnโ€™t seem to exist.
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J Smith
@jvin248
If there is a productive land conversion for solar panel systems; it needs to be all those acres of suburban lawns. That's where the energy is consumed. Converting food farms (whether ethanol or food) is a massive mistake as it's really hard to convert back.
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Demogenes
@RexDiogenes
We can also just have solar panels on top of a lot of stuff. Even if that isn't enough, it's a pretty casual option to offset energy demand.
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George Mokray
@gmokery
Plants have a light saturation point Whole country survey of agrivoltaics - Canada mdpi.com/2071-1050/15/4 agritecture.com/blog/agricultu Survey of current solar energy + agriculture, agrivoltaic, projects around the world cleantechnica.com/2024/08/28/new Some history: solarray.blogspot.com/2019/09/agroph
New Agrivoltaic Project Pairs Japanese Yams With Solar Panels - CleanTechnica
From cleantechnica.com
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Doug Meyer
@NebGradDubDub
A kernel of corn produces ethanol and animal feed or oil or sugar. It doesnโ€™t just produce power. Itโ€™s renewable and eats as much carbon as the Amazon rainforest while cooling the Midwest. Solar panels cause heat, arenโ€™t renewable and contain harmful forever chemicals.
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Marc Lombardo
@aliveoccupation
Fair enough. But I'm going to keep loudly complaining when wild habitat is cremated for the "efficiency" of solar megaplants, going on as we speak.
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RefinedPlat
@RefinedPlatinum
To me the big issue is not land space for solar but the lack of government incentives to use land already subsidized for ethanol corn or other ill-suited crops instead of selling off precious wilderness
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Rosario Ayela
@CharoAyela
I suppose that when a new system appears some people always complain, but later they understand how positive they are and get used to them! (They aretrying to fix my page. Weยดll see! There are two computer experts working on it)
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Jack
@OnJacking
Can't wait for transparent solar panels that can be embedded into windows. You solve automatically aesthetic and installation hurdles in one go
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Aaron Ruby ๎จ€๐Ÿ’ฅ
@aruby_
Before trucks and tractors, about 48 million acres were used to feed horses (33 million acres of cropland and 15 million of pasture).
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Joel M. Curzon
@JoelMCurzon
It doesnโ€™t replace anything. It just adds to everything else. No corn is being taken out of production, no oil fields are being displaced. This entire narrative is false.
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Ven s Son
@Ven2Son
An evil to replace another evil doesn't sound great. There is plenty of land on people's roof, goverment buildings. Anywhere but places that we need to take vegetation away. Solar panels are toxic over time, other stuff getting planted isn't.
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Morphing Reality
@MorphingReality
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Morphing Reality
@MorphingReality
Replying to @MikeFay44 and @ChrisMartzWX
You could build enough solar to 10x global installed capacity of all electricity on 0.0007% of the land and make a profit doing so. I donโ€™t know enough about labour govts plan to comment on it in detail.
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Alan Pater
@alanpater
Anyone concerned about land use changes needs to look at ways to shift diets away from eating animals.
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Ron nichol
@Ronnichol2
So weโ€™re supposed to trust the same gov that subsidizes corn growers for the obscenely wasteful ethanol mandates - weโ€™re supposed to trust that same gov when theyโ€™re pushing the โ€œclimate emergencyโ€œ scam?
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Frog
@Pollythewog
What drugs are you one? Anyone who has ever driven a car or flown a plane has seen acres and acres of solar panels and windmills. Never seen oil fields like that. You counting the formations below ground?
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Det Doowlle ๐Ÿ
@det_doowlle
China controls 98% of the rare earth minerals that are necessary to build solar panels. So, you are advocating that we hand control of our energy to China. Are you really that STEW PID?
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