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North Beach built fewer than 25 homes per year between 2005 and 2019. The neighborhood looks exactly the same as it did 50 years ago because most of the buildings are more than 100 years old.
Who can afford to move into the *existing* housing in North Beach? Rich people!
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Hello World
@HelloWo40063049
Replying to @BOBMONEY711
Gonna let you in on a little secret: Newly-built, dense housing in North Beach will not be affordable for tenants. At all. Guess who will move in? Rich people! The end
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It takes 45 minutes to get to downtown from the Sunset. It takes 5 minutes to get there from North Beach.
I don't get why you're incapable of letting cities have charm and not be New York
SoMa is unpleasant because it’s cut up by 5 lane one way surface highways that carry ~all the city’s traffic to and from I-80 and the bay bridge.
It certainly *should* be the most important job market on earth, but for whatever reason all of the tech firms concentrated in the boring ass South Bay
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Is there any reason to believe there will be a change in that area anytime soon?
No. Our proposed rezoning is concentrated on the west side. sfplanning.org/project/expand
Cute should not be enough to preserve the low density of that neighborhood but just a short distance out of the bottom frame people are fighting just as hard to prevent any new development in one of the most butt ugly places in the Bay Area. It's psychotic.
and still!
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tautologer
@tautologer
Replying to @easoncxz
fun fact North Beach, which you're looking at, is actually one of the densest neighborhoods in the US (especially outside NYC) at 38,000 per square mile according to Wikipedia. Manhattan is 72,000/sqmi for reference
source for images: statsmapsnpix.com/2023/02/the-mo
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downtown SF is dead and certainly not the most important job market on earth
SF should be the biggest greatest city in the world. Why doesn’t it want to be?
(I know it’s the NIMBYs)
The obvious compromise would be a high rise residential community with an expansive waterfront park where those piers are like Battery Park City
What’s your point here?
37% of office space in SF is vacant.
Why are you hating on North Beach for not giving a fuck about building or changing its character?
SF has enough land and units to be affordable, your local govt just makes it impossible to convert office to multi
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There’s a reason it’s so nice - because developers haven’t come and fucked the whole place up
North Beach should absolutely be up zoned but living in the city hard to see downtown SF as the locus of the 'most important job market on earth'. Most of the tech jobs are in a bunch of suburban office parks down in Silicon Valley and Biotech is in Oyster Point.
Yes, I wish the buildings around the block had a few more stories (and also that the Central Subway extension to Washington Square was finished), but I think the best feasible option is building slightly higher when there is a vacant lot or building to demolish for some reason
Notably, the Italian restaurants North Beach is known for have not improved in those 80 years. In fact, they have gotten worse and more expensive.
Please try to understand Max the 80+ year old $3.5k+ per month homes are rent controlled. The rich people who live in them are protected from greedy developers who want to build more homes for everyone else. I support tenants, I am progressive
I have a question.
If you go up Market from the Financial District, you get to Tenderloin/mid-Market, which has been a dump for 60 years.
Why can’t they redevelop an area literally a few blocks away from the most important job market on earth?
I agree with your overall point, that the surrounding areas need to be up-zoned dramatically, but the idea that San Francisco has the most important job market on earth seems... questionable to me. Most important to who?
see also: most of the peninsula
or, case study, the major mid-peninsula transit hub and light rail terminus of Millbrae... surrounded by acres of un-walkable low/zero density parking-lot, 6 lane road and strip-mall hellscape.
I don't get the support for zoning laws here.
If the owners want to keep their cute little neighborhood how it is, then they can! Nobody's going to show up and make them tear down their houses and build skyscrapers.
What if in writing they got 200 years of no eminent domain?
north beach has the highest concentration of service workers who both live and work in the neighborhood in all of sf. that’s one of the primary drivers of its consistent and storied culture.
n/y imby discussion has nuance
Client bought a property to redevelop in NB. Old factory to multi res apartments. The supervisor for the area won’t let it go through because his office is across the street and he thinks there will be too much noise for him working.
okay but picture makes it look like it should be west beach, cant process post
And guess what's inbetween? Chinatown. Explains some of what's been happening there over the past few years.
Unfortunately not the most important job market on earth, but it should be. Why big tech decided on sprawling campuses over grandiose towers is completely beyond me
Sound like cultural heritage management for the ensemble/neighborhood - that’s quite common in other countries…
Yeah hard disagree on the most important job market on earth... and people should be allowed to keep the feel of their neighbourhood.
Also twenty years of high density housing has been built just on other side of downtown but with freeway access to get to all the tech jobs down the peninsula
North Beach is beautiful and fairly dense. Aesthetics matter, sorry. It's further away from downtown, but the neighborhood we should be replacing is the Sunset, which is horrendously ugly either way and mostly comprised of single-family homes.
Downtown SF feels empty. Everyone still works from home (while the rest of the country has gone back to offices) and the companies that don’t have moved to the SV burbs or Texas
Is that market more important than energy and food production? If it is a high-tech job market, why can't they work remotely?
uh.... what "important" work goes on here? like i'm not sure it'd even be top 5 in the US, let alone world, for "important" work.
There are plenty of SF businesses outside of downtown (and much of downtown is empty right now!). I’m in the Sunset and we need more density of housing here! North Beach has density and character and we have…nail shops and laundromats. More density will bring more vibrancy
I’m just asking for clarification that your just pointing at downtown and not the EC center complex 
“most important job market on earth” is quite the stretch, and if this were true for the bay area it probably lies somewhere in south bay
Tbh I don't think it that much of an issue since neighborhoods like that are such a Large part of San Francisco's urban identity, it'd probably be good to build a few midrise apartments just to help affordability though
San Francisco isn’t even the most important job market in the Bay Area what are you on…
You lost me at "literally the most important job market on earth."
GIF
Can we build more public transportation while at this?
Then move to Mission Bay, Soma or Dog Patch. If you can’t live in a better neighborhood
You must be confused, it's not even the most important job market in the bay area, let alone the world. The San Jose/Palo Alto/ Mountains view area is a more important job market that's also in the Bay Area
Good idea we should also build a mega freeway along the waterfront for this most important market on earth
North Beach is literally on a hill, so it's a terrible place to build housing dense housing.
>most important job market on Earth
Given the Hellscape we're in, you've made me THAT MUCH MORE CYNICAL about the area and people.
Everything that "job market" offers is being either converted to online only, outsourced, or being done by Ai. So nice try urbanist
spent time there for work recently. seemed like a shit neighborhood by city lights. does it get nicer in other parts?
If I was *shudder* forced to live in SF, at least there's a decent neighborhood!
North Beach is loaded with housing. Housing with character & history. Is the problem that it’s not in the hands of non-profits and public housing providers?
This is why the most sensible think to do is move the tech industry to some random rural area and just build the entire city from scratch, ala Dubai
What does “most important job market on earth” mean? It doesn’t employ the most people and SF gdp isn’t even in the top 3 US metro areas.
No worries, it is no longer an important job market, unless you count dealing fenty and the "non profit" homeless housing grift.
Are you calling the ghost town Financial District the most important job market on earth?
North beach is full of recent grads, and lots of them not even making big tech salaries. I have friends paying $1400-1800 / mo for decent places in North Beach. If you can’t swing that, there’s the Mission or other neighborhoods you can pay even less
if some people want to make a load of money digging for gold next to your home, why should you be forced to accommodate them?
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Vanja 
@vanjajaja1
san francisco is living through the movie Up! except its a whole neighbourhood not a house and a bunch of people are convinced that the old dude is the bad guy x.com/maxdubler/stat…
The jobs have left the Bay Area. People are out of work. Downtown is a ghost town. Who are they building for?
San Francisco isn’t that important. Calm down.
where is the land fill areas ?
I was there in 1989
some area were very unstable when vibrated
That "job market" is where scammy junk companies all are. $ABNB is dead in the water, they are going to get sued into oblivion because the lucky idiot that started it thinks he is some kind of guru/thought leader.
Why is that one the “most important”? To whom? Who works there? That’s the Financial District. Most cities of any size have one. San Francisco’s is no more “important” than any other one, and probably far less “important” than many.
It's tech they can put this ahit anywhere
But Max North Beach and Chinatown are also two of the only affordable neighborhoods in the entire city!
How does destroying literally affordable housing and replacing it with another empty and unaffordable high rise help our situation?
Don't destroy the cute charming neighbourhood. We have so few of them. Bulldoze a newer suburb instead.
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Aykut
@BloodReaver
Replying to @DDrolapas
Your local SF zoning official don't want you to know this simple trick of unlocking billions of dollars of GPD per year! I don't know something w/ higher ROI than this for SF.
I’ve seen some extremely fucked up shit in North Beach. Could not imagine how fucked up that place is now.
Rent control. That’s the problem with SF. End rent control and massive quantities of housing will come on market overnight.